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Esoterica

Your defense of Brave having an all white cast because PoC in Scotland is ‘unrealistic’ is bullshit.

angryhistory:

(If anyone finds the way I discuss race in this problematic, please let me know so I can change it so it’s more appropriate to the conversation at hand)

The topic of PoC in Britain has been discussed at length here before. However, I feel like it hasn’t been discussed enough because some dumb asses still aren’t getting that Britain has basically never been segregated from parts of the world with PoC.

Now, even if it had been why does visibility of PoC in these areas become somehow less believable than a talking bear or a dragon? PoC at least exist! So why does it matter. I digress, this is a history blog so let me get onto the history.

To quote a friend (who I wouldn’t call a dumb ass, rather I will call her uninformed) said to me, “But that would be unrealistic, there were no black people in 15th century Scotland.” To which of course I replied, “Oh and the magic bears were?” 

Brave doesn’t even really have a standing in a realistic time period as there’s too many things that make it hard to really stake down when it’s taking place. But since my aforementioned friend mentioned ‘15th century’, that’s where we’re going.

Did Scotland have PoC in the 15 century? YES. 

Helpfully, a quick google search for some sources to back up some background knowledge I found that the British National Archives has a website with an entire section called “Black Presence”

I know, I can hear you all groaning so I’m going to quote a few of the pages from this source for you.

Even more helpfully, they have a page titled ‘Black Moors in Scotland’!

“There were no black people in Scotland until…”

Africans have been present in Europe from classical times.

“Oh.”

Exactly.

 In the 2nd and 3rd centuries Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured Black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland. From the end of the 15th century we begin to see more evidence for the presence of Black Moors in the accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland, and later in Elizabethan England.

So clearly PoC have been present in Britain for… well pretty much forever. They weren’t taken there entirely willingly, and yes a lot of them were slaves but they still existed there.

I’m glad they mention King James IV though, because they do have a section on him. Apparently he had black people in his courts, not necessarily even as slaves or servants- but as invited guests. There’s also evidence to support that black women (who may have been servants) were also given expensive gowns and jewelry by the king as gifts.

There were many PoC there at that point in time, and fewer accounts of this type of thing exist afterwards. But some of this also disproves the notion that PoC could have only been slaves.

There’s another page on the National Archives website that says

People of African and Asian origin have lived in Britain for at least two millennia.

Another thing that is interesting to note is Kenneth III who was king of Scotland from 997-1005. Though there’s no conclusive evidence of his race, there is some proof that he was black.

He was sometimes known as “Kenneth the Niger” (I was uncomfortable including that, but it has one G rather than two so I hope that makes some sort of difference in the context) and also Kenneth Dubh (Dubh being a surname meaning ‘the black man’). 

There were plenty of warriors from North Africa that sailed and stayed in Europe and eventually held power all over the place so it is entirely possible that he was an African. However there is some controversy to whether or not Kenneth III was of some south-European descent or North-African (though personally I believe he was African as so much evidence points to that).

If we go to Wales in history we find St. Deiniol who died in 584. There’s not a whole lot of information to be found… but I find that pictures speak a thousand words, so here’s two:

So, tell me again that there could not have possibly been black people in Scotland or Britain at that time. I dare you.

(via masteradept)

pumpkinspiceaddiction

deliciouskaek:

c-lov3r:

ai-yo:

hamburgerjack:

setfabulazerstomaximumcaptain:

missmisandry:

Woah. I was looking through screen caps for a photo set I want to do and look what I found.

This is from Dumbo. The scene where a bunch of men are out in the rain and lightning erecting the tent.

And I never noticed before, but they’re all featureless, uniform, almost ape-like, and black.

This is the same movie with the talking bird named Jim Crow and his equally racist bird friends.

Seriously disturbing. 

My childhood has literally been obliterated.

WHat.

The.FuckD qp’fiejwfip’gjip’j

And then in the song, it’s basically saying how stupid they are and how they just throw their money away later.

They’re never seen again once the pure light of day comes out and the circus opens.

yep I remember them 

Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike!
We work all day, we work all night
We never learned to read or write
We’re happy-hearted roustabouts

Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike!
When other folks have gone to bed
We slave until we’re almost dead
We’re happy-hearted roustabouts

Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike! Ugh! Hike!
We don’t know when we get our pay
And when we do, we throw our pay away
(When we get our pay, we throw our money all away)
We get our pay when children say
With happy hearts, “It’s circus day today”
(Then we get our pay, just watching kids on circus day)

Muscles achin’
Back near breaking
Eggs and bacon what we need (Yes, sir!)
Boss man houndin’
Keep on poundin’
For your bed and feed
There ain’t no let up
Must get set up
Pull that canvas! Drive that stake!
Want to doze off
Get them clothes off
But must keep awake
Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave!
Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave! Hep! Heave!
Hep! Heave! Hep!

Swing that sledge! Sing that song!
Work and laugh the whole night long
You happy-hearted roustabouts!
Pullin’, poundin’, tryin’, groundin’
Big top roundin’ into shape
Keep on working!
Stop that shirking!
Grab that rope, you hairy ape!
Poundin’! poundin’! poundin’! poundin’!
Oh…

there isn’t a gif that accurately portrays my reaction to this :|

how do words right now

just eww

(via deliciouskaek)

disneyconfessions
thegoddamazon:

locsgirl:

the-bitch-goddess-success:

kirstinthereckless:

not-here-for-it:

razycrandomcunt:

thelittlekneesofbees:

nakedcrip:

stfunithingas:

thehalloweennegras:

Umm dumb ass ancient Greece had black folks there.
Know ya history

And Hercules is not a documentary on Ancient Greece. It’s a fucking cartoon for fun.

also wow complaining about the fact that some characters are black just WOW

Blonde and white skinned, too?
If they went to Greece they’d have a coronary.
(Let’s send them to Greece.)

I’ve never met a blonde Grecian in my life….`





If you were blonde and “white skinned” in Greece, you would be the first to look like a lobster and the first case of skin cancer…

………
You don’t have a problem with man-goats and flying horses but you have a problem with black muses? Fuck allllll the way out of here.

So….let me get this straight.
White characters = totally okay and normal.  No big deal.
Black characters = only there to pander to the ‘diversity’ crowd, and a problem.
=/

Why is anyone even surprised.
And also, this confession must have been sent in by someone who was still stew in their dad’s balls when this movie came out.
During the “Making Of” special the Disney Channel did on this (if anyone remembers the little Behind the Scenes thing they did for upcoming Disney films), they specifically said they wanted the entire gimmick of Hercules to be like a gospel of his story. This wasn’t cheap pandering at diversity, this was them putting a new spin on an old tale—you know, in typical Disney fashion. Yeah, Disney does some racist shit, but this remains one of my favorite films because the soundtrack for it was flawless. Why?
Because Black people make everything better and everyone knows this.
Stay pressed, bitch.
And let’s discuss how if you were blonde and blue-eyed in Greece you were probably a Slav from Eastern Europe, who were frequently taken as slaves by damn near everyone who was civilized in the Ancient World (including Africans hazzah).
In fact, the media’s entire depiction of Greece and Rome is inaccurate as all fifty shades of the fucks you think Disney gives about your complaint that their award-winning film was pandering to diversity.
But it’s okay. You can keep choking on the glistening cock of the White Man’s History Book.
You really need to ask yourself why you have more of a problem with the Muses—who were mostly supporting characters—being Black rather than why it’s so easy for you to accept that this nigga Hercules was fighting centaurs and shit in broad daylight.

thegoddamazon:

locsgirl:

the-bitch-goddess-success:

kirstinthereckless:

not-here-for-it:

razycrandomcunt:

thelittlekneesofbees:

nakedcrip:

stfunithingas:

thehalloweennegras:

Umm dumb ass ancient Greece had black folks there.

Know ya history

And Hercules is not a documentary on Ancient Greece. It’s a fucking cartoon for fun.

also wow complaining about the fact that some characters are black just WOW

Blonde and white skinned, too?

If they went to Greece they’d have a coronary.

(Let’s send them to Greece.)

I’ve never met a blonde Grecian in my life….`

If you were blonde and “white skinned” in Greece, you would be the first to look like a lobster and the first case of skin cancer…

………

You don’t have a problem with man-goats and flying horses but you have a problem with black muses? Fuck allllll the way out of here.

So….let me get this straight.

White characters = totally okay and normal.  No big deal.

Black characters = only there to pander to the ‘diversity’ crowd, and a problem.

=/

Why is anyone even surprised.

And also, this confession must have been sent in by someone who was still stew in their dad’s balls when this movie came out.

During the “Making Of” special the Disney Channel did on this (if anyone remembers the little Behind the Scenes thing they did for upcoming Disney films), they specifically said they wanted the entire gimmick of Hercules to be like a gospel of his story. This wasn’t cheap pandering at diversity, this was them putting a new spin on an old tale—you know, in typical Disney fashion. Yeah, Disney does some racist shit, but this remains one of my favorite films because the soundtrack for it was flawless. Why?

Because Black people make everything better and everyone knows this.

Stay pressed, bitch.

And let’s discuss how if you were blonde and blue-eyed in Greece you were probably a Slav from Eastern Europe, who were frequently taken as slaves by damn near everyone who was civilized in the Ancient World (including Africans hazzah).

In fact, the media’s entire depiction of Greece and Rome is inaccurate as all fifty shades of the fucks you think Disney gives about your complaint that their award-winning film was pandering to diversity.

But it’s okay. You can keep choking on the glistening cock of the White Man’s History Book.

You really need to ask yourself why you have more of a problem with the Muses—who were mostly supporting characters—being Black rather than why it’s so easy for you to accept that this nigga Hercules was fighting centaurs and shit in broad daylight.

(via masteradept)

konnei
barelygrazedyouwithapumpkin:

daringstars:

horny-heiwajima:

Yup. Disney sure was racist before they added a black woman.
Because everyone knows that the only races there are in the world is black and not black.
Silly Disney.

While I love Princess and the frog, the idea that Disney hadn’t done any other racial differences is mindblowing. I mean really?

“G***y” is a slur. Also, Atlantis is a fictional place.
YES, it’s brilliant when Disney includes POC in their movies. NO ONE is saying that these characters DON’T exist, or that it’s BAD that they do. What people are saying is that they are often depicted by Disney in problematic ways that further racism and racialised misogyny.

You have to love that there is no mention of the objections to these depictions, or Fantasia’s original cut, or the Jim Crows in Dumbo.

barelygrazedyouwithapumpkin:

daringstars:

horny-heiwajima:

Yup. Disney sure was racist before they added a black woman.

Because everyone knows that the only races there are in the world is black and not black.

Silly Disney.

While I love Princess and the frog, the idea that Disney hadn’t done any other racial differences is mindblowing. I mean really?

“G***y” is a slur. Also, Atlantis is a fictional place.

YES, it’s brilliant when Disney includes POC in their movies. NO ONE is saying that these characters DON’T exist, or that it’s BAD that they do. What people are saying is that they are often depicted by Disney in problematic ways that further racism and racialised misogyny.

You have to love that there is no mention of the objections to these depictions, or Fantasia’s original cut, or the Jim Crows in Dumbo.

(via blue-author)

daughterofmulan
iamabutchsolo:

I keep having discussions about Disney films and how racist many of the classics are, but the subject that I most fall upon is the 1953 version of Peter Pan, which holds an absurd breadth of racial stereotypes that there are musical numbers and plot sequences directly the product of such racial stereotypes of Native Americans. Certainly, the film’s portrayal undoubtedly permeated into the pretend games of children and their perception of how Native Americans behaved - I know this movie influenced me to wear feathers in my hair, pretend to do Indian tribal dances, and say “how” over and over.
The defense I hear most often from people is that films like Peter Pan “were not racist at the time they were made.”
What they really mean is that white people didn’t think it was racist at the time they were made. The film is just as racist then just as it is now. The fact that people can say movies like Peter Pan were “products of their time” negate that actual Native Americans have been vocal about their objections to the homogenization and stereotypical portrayal of their cultures and their race for literally centuries, but white people just didn’t listen to them. The constant apologism that something “wasn’t racist back then” implies that it is white society that deems what is racist, rather than the people of color directly affected and portrayed. Again, if it is racist now, it was racist then.
Also, children buy into these stereotypes, but children didn’t make this film; grown men did. It was a grown man who wrote the original Peter Pan story and its stereotypical portrayals of Natives. People talk about white creators back then as if they were little kids who didn’t know better. We shouldn’t give them an easy reprieve because a bunch of grown men “didn’t know better” to consider that Native Americans were people and not caricatures. If you like Peter Pan, you can like it, but we shouldn’t downplay its racism nor make excuses.

iamabutchsolo:

I keep having discussions about Disney films and how racist many of the classics are, but the subject that I most fall upon is the 1953 version of Peter Pan, which holds an absurd breadth of racial stereotypes that there are musical numbers and plot sequences directly the product of such racial stereotypes of Native Americans. Certainly, the film’s portrayal undoubtedly permeated into the pretend games of children and their perception of how Native Americans behaved - I know this movie influenced me to wear feathers in my hair, pretend to do Indian tribal dances, and say “how” over and over.

The defense I hear most often from people is that films like Peter Pan “were not racist at the time they were made.”

What they really mean is that white people didn’t think it was racist at the time they were made. The film is just as racist then just as it is now. The fact that people can say movies like Peter Pan were “products of their time” negate that actual Native Americans have been vocal about their objections to the homogenization and stereotypical portrayal of their cultures and their race for literally centuries, but white people just didn’t listen to them. The constant apologism that something “wasn’t racist back then” implies that it is white society that deems what is racist, rather than the people of color directly affected and portrayed. Again, if it is racist now, it was racist then.

Also, children buy into these stereotypes, but children didn’t make this film; grown men did. It was a grown man who wrote the original Peter Pan story and its stereotypical portrayals of Natives. People talk about white creators back then as if they were little kids who didn’t know better. We shouldn’t give them an easy reprieve because a bunch of grown men “didn’t know better” to consider that Native Americans were people and not caricatures. If you like Peter Pan, you can like it, but we shouldn’t downplay its racism nor make excuses.

(via masteradept)

janedoodles

Possible candidates for a WOC Disney Princess

masteradept:

Queen Liliuokalani: Hawaiian princess during the 1800’s who must defend her land from a scorned volcano spirit that swears to destroy all of Hawaii.
Princess Kaguya: Japanese folktale princess who is raised by the emperor and soon discovers her inherent alien abilities as a resident of the Moon, deals with social exclusion while simultaneously butting heads with a kitsune.
Calamity Jane: Native American non-princess a la Mulan who deals with mystical creatures she must defeat while on the Western Frontier because she is the only one who knows the dangers of the land (like Wendigos and Cactus Cats).
Maria Pistolas: Hispanic non-princess who rescues unjustly arrested revolutionaries during the Mexican Revolution against Spain.
Queen Hatshepsut: Egyptian pharaoh who is cursed to become a wolf at night by the Egyptian gods and must discover a cure after realizing she has killed her entire family and become monarch.
Princess Romanework: Ethiopian princess who must venture into Italy in hopes of escaping death due to being a twin and experiences culture shock.

(via spookyfluffaloforbossofmybutt)

amymebberson
amymebberson:

Pocket Princesses #22 - Merida’s First Tea Party
Delighted to say that Pocket Princesses will be making their debut at San Diego Comic Con!! I’m not going to say HOW, because I want it to be an extra-special treat for comicon attendees. Come by booth 1804(APE Entertainment) or our Artist Alley table DD11 to see an all-new Pocket Princesses piece.
I’ll post it here after the con is over.
James Silvani will also have a new Stitch piece available at DD11, so stop on by!!

amymebberson:

Pocket Princesses #22 - Merida’s First Tea Party

Delighted to say that Pocket Princesses will be making their debut at San Diego Comic Con!! I’m not going to say HOW, because I want it to be an extra-special treat for comicon attendees. Come by booth 1804(APE Entertainment) or our Artist Alley table DD11 to see an all-new Pocket Princesses piece.

I’ll post it here after the con is over.

James Silvani will also have a new Stitch piece available at DD11, so stop on by!!

(via thestoutorialist)

amymebberson
amymebberson:

Pocket Princesses 23
Also: I’ve noticed people taking PPs and reposting them on their own feeds, either as lone cartoons or as big photosets. One such photoset has clocked up over 37k notes with NO linking credit back to my tumblr feed here. PLEASE, reblog rather than repost. Don’t repost Tumblr art to boost your own signal, that’s not cool.
And if you ever DO post something from somewhere else, please make sure you include a link to the creator, so people can find their work. That’s the courteous thing to do.

amymebberson:

Pocket Princesses 23

Also: I’ve noticed people taking PPs and reposting them on their own feeds, either as lone cartoons or as big photosets. One such photoset has clocked up over 37k notes with NO linking credit back to my tumblr feed here. PLEASE, reblog rather than repost. Don’t repost Tumblr art to boost your own signal, that’s not cool.

And if you ever DO post something from somewhere else, please make sure you include a link to the creator, so people can find their work. That’s the courteous thing to do.

(via thestoutorialist)

feministdisney

feministdisney:

The Disney Princesses tell it like it is

(via moniquill)

ineffable-hufflepuff

Yes, Brave should have and could have included PoC characters.

wolfchild-bloodchild:

karnythia:

mochiyoshka:

beatricethegolden:

alostbird:

beatricethegolden:

alostbird:

beatricethegolden:

highlanderhufflepuffhugmachine:

First of all, we’re talking about a movie in which humans turn into bears and a witch has a talking raven. I can accept a universe with magic and talking bears, I can sure as hell accept a universe in which there were black people in Scotland by around the 10th century.

Not to mention there WERE NON-WHITE PEOPLE IN EUROPE BY THEN. 

Seriously. Black people weren’t just sittin’ around with their thumbs up their asses waiting to be discovered and enslaved by white people. 

Let’s have a run down of Non-white people who did have contact with Europe, and could have been in Brave:

  • -The Egyptians (many of whom where, yes black. Some of them were more middle eastern in appearance, but many were undisputedly Black as well),
  • -the Ghana empire
  • -traders and goods from China that traveled along the silk road and Indian Ocean trading routes,
  • -The Moors (of Northern Africa) who had sustained contact with Europe, especially after the arrival of Islam into the region, which increased international trade
  • -fuck, God damn HANNIBAL with his fucking war elephants marching over the alps and making the Romans piss themselves
  • The First Crusade happened in the late 10th Century, and Europeans had been making pilgrimages to the Middle East long before then.
  • The entire Arabic world had plenty of contact with Europe through trade.

ALL had contact with Europe by the 10th century. 

I know that in school we’re taught that History was made by white people, and the stories and experiences of the rest of the world tend to be systematically ignored until Atlantic Slavery comes along, but this is not reality. 

Europeans had contact with non-white people for thousands of fucking years before imperialism began. 

—> Another recent movie, called “The Secret of Kells” set in Ireland in the 7th Century had both black AND arabic characters in it. 

I ADORED Brave as a movie. I thought that it’s focus on female relationships, instead of the standard heteronormative romance was really refreshing. It’s a movie that I can not wait to show my children growing up. BUT this does not change the fact that the complete and utter erasure of PoC in Europe’s history is still problematic. 

oh my god who fucking cares seriously?

If you didn’t care why did your ignorant ass reblog it. 

Because the first post was too goddamn hilarious not to reblog. It’s not like poc were just walking around the streets of Scotland back then. 

Actually there were Black people in Scotland, that shows how much you know about the country. 

I never said there wasn’t any I said I doubt they were just strolling around the streets in such large numbers like that. But seriously it’s a movie that had nothing to do with poc characters and everything to do with Merida. 

Yeaah I’m pretty sure the majority of black people in Scotland, in the United Kingdom as a whole, were slaves. Shows how much you know about the country too.

So then if there actually were black people in Brave, everyone would be complaining about how it’s supporting slavery or something stupid like that.

There is seriously no pleasing you guys. :I

Actually they would have been leaders, warriors, scholars & traders. Google is your friend, it’ll introduce you to the Moors, King Kenneth & a wealth of history that movies like Brave have helped erase to create this delusion that black people didn’t exist on the global stage before slavery.

Not to mention that is was already stated that it doesn’t really matter at the end of the day whether or not there were POC in Scotland at the time because of the magic and talking birds and shit. If you can have that stuff you can have black and brown people. Children of color (and really adults of color too) deserve to be represented in movies and shows and books and they just fucking aren’t and it’s bullshit. Yay they finally made a black princess (who spent most of the movie as a goddamn frog, btw)!!! So it’s totally okay to make the next two princess movies contain not one single solitary person of color because HISTORY GUISE!!!!!

(or rather, WHAT I THINK I KNOW AS HISTORY BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THIS WHITE SUPREMACIST CULTURE HAS TAUGHT ME GUISE!!!)

But children of color don’t have feelings so it is totally okay that their self esteem is damaged by media like Brave. Or something. Never mind that Nala could have been a human princess if Lion King had been set in an actual African country like Mali.

(via kimberleesi)